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Post by firecracker on Jul 5, 2013 15:52:38 GMT -5
When I hear Ray Kurzweil speak of his vision of the future, it gives me chills.
But then I wonder, what if, the mind of Stephen Hawkings could be uploaded into a robot, if his mind could escape the boundaries that his physical body has imposed.
So there are many questions in my mind when I try to imagine the future of mankind and the advance of artificial intelligence, non biological robots, etc.
First, where are we now, and where might we be in the next 10 years.
Second, what if any restrictions should we put on this technology, and if we put them on, would they be enforceable.
Third, will we be able to maintain this technology as a force for the advancement of mankind rather than its destruction.
Fourth, again taking Hawkings as an example. If his mind were uploaded and he continued forward with his mind also. There would be 2 of his minds. How might they advance differently and why? What influence would the things we think of as 'core values' have on each mind. We think we know the influence on the mind in the biological interface. But what of the mind in the robotic interface?
And what of the power of multiple minds focused on one direction. For instance, in religion, it is called the power of prayer. In sectarian society it is called the power of positive thinking, etc. There appears to be a force evoked when multiple mental energies are directed at one mental target.
And if this is true and multiple energies are directed at one target, and the target is for evil....what might be the hazard?
And if the goal of merging man with machine and uploading the mind so that the mechanical entity can live forever (whatever that is), do you think that is possible?
I can't get a toaster to last more than a year or so....is it realistic to believe in 'eternal life' through machines.
And if we are 'consciousness' and if 'death' is simply a transition to a state of freedom from our physical biological interface, why would we want to limit this freedom by attaching this consciousness to a robot.
What are YOUR thoughts, questions or information on this topic?
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Post by inventorunknown on Jul 5, 2013 16:53:15 GMT -5
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Post by inventorunknown on Jul 5, 2013 17:20:01 GMT -5
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Post by firecracker on Jul 5, 2013 17:38:12 GMT -5
Think of what you term 'riddles' like baiting the water by throwing bread into it to lure the fish in. My 'riddles' were intended to be food for possible discussion. I had hoped for intelligent discussion.
I liked your comment, actually, your OWN riddle re: negative thinking. I don't know the answer to it. How much of the human experience of negative thinking is the programming of the mind from past experiences warning that there are likely large hurdles ahead, maybe ones of which we are not conscious? And what percentage is related to self esteem. Will the human-machine interface have 'morals', will it ever 'feel' it has done something wrong?
So, forget the riddles, you may be someone who doesn't interface with his mind the way I do or others. Perhaps little things like a song, are a 'message' for someone like myself for a direction of the investigation.
You may get YOUR ideas without lyrics. To each his own.
So, hasn't the literature indicated that the development of the mind (intelligence) is both a process of selectivity and experience? That has been my understanding. What is yours?
I have no egoic attachment to this thread. You say it is a good subject for discussion without riddles. Why don't YOU start your own thread and take it the direction you believe is riddle free? I gave it my best shot. You have denigrated the questions of my mind on the subject as 'riddles'. Fine.
So I will ask you to address your own riddle, "If many were being destroyed, how should this robot think?" I suspect your answer is that this robot should not have either a positive or negative reaction. And, that's what scares the heck out of those who view humans as capable of compassion. It's the idea of a future run by unfeeling, uncaring technological creations.
Or I'll make it simple for you, you can have this thread.
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Post by firecracker on Jul 5, 2013 17:40:46 GMT -5
what is the difference between mankind and humankind?
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Post by firecracker on Jul 5, 2013 17:42:36 GMT -5
is this better?
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Post by inventorunknown on Jul 5, 2013 18:47:17 GMT -5
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Post by inventorunknown on Jul 5, 2013 23:17:59 GMT -5
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Post by firecracker on Jul 5, 2013 23:40:22 GMT -5
I come at this topic with a slight bias which has been gained from the fact that those who are funding the research you and others are doing in this area, are people with so much money that life bores them. They always are seeking something more...more control, more wealth, more sex, more demonic pleasures.
And the other source of the funds is the M.I.C. whose track record of usage of new technology is pretty well established.
And I find it a great irony that those who are bored with life now because they have more than they could ever need or spend, are the ones who talk of being immortal via the merger of man and machine.
And that could possibly be explained as simply being afraid of 'death'.
The beauty of all things is, I think, a Zen Buddhist belief, isn't it? Because you have lashed out previously at comments connected to Christianity, I have assumed you were atheist or agnostic. Regardless, I have strayed off topic. The beauty of all things, I can only envision as great love. Take the feeling you have had when you have fallen deeply in love with some one and take it to the nth degree. That's what I think of. Imagine that. And psychologists describe this "falling in love" as a dropping of ego boundaries. Which fits into the beauty of all things area, because ego is a major cause of friction and unhappiness in our existence.
Of course, on a lighter but very REAL aside....the guys I know who speak of this new virtual lifestyle, all want to experience virtual sex. Which, again, a little bit of the lighter side here....if a woman ever felt she blew a guys mind with a hot night....that could be dangerous if the mind was powered by electrical currents!
So back to the serious discussion of how this 'mind' might work. If someone's mind is uploaded to a non biological interface, is the result human?
And, if there is a power failure, couldn't the mind transition, just as it would in 'death, or is there some kind of mother of all data centers where there is a back up mind for human # 000-38-0000?
Of course, if only the "good minds" are uploaded, well, then, many will die. Now there's a thorny little side note.
To some extent, your focus on only the science and technology frees you from all the ethical questions. And yet, your paragraph starting with "what if" does seem to be the epitome of existence. You can dream it and build it with solid material and experience, and so far, contain it. But attempting to build this merger with human minds and machines will likely be far more challenging!
By the time we peons (myself and others, not yourself) hear of these things, they are not IN the future but of the present. Has anyone volunteered or been drafted to be the first whose mind is uploaded? I'm wondering how long this has been going on and how many have undergone the upload....and what we have learned from those pioneers.
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Post by inventorunknown on Jul 6, 2013 1:03:38 GMT -5
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Post by firecracker on Jul 6, 2013 2:04:03 GMT -5
Yes, I know who you are, I just don't have details. The G.D. interview from other, very interesting. Staying up too late listening to it, afraid they will disappear it.
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Post by inventorunknown on Jul 6, 2013 12:54:23 GMT -5
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Post by firecracker on Jul 6, 2013 13:54:18 GMT -5
Yes, let's continue. Why don't you lead this time...I'm operating at about 35% today. Will follow.
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Post by inventorunknown on Jul 6, 2013 15:27:06 GMT -5
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Post by firecracker on Jul 6, 2013 16:24:40 GMT -5
Okay, so let me break this into bites and attempt to digest it.
First, there are a number of devices already available to us to interface with our brains when the original interface is corrupted.
For example, for days now, I have been profoundly deaf in my one ear. Hopefully, treatment will correct this. But we currently have an implant available that can restore hearing or give hearing to those who were born deaf. Now if that interface has another function built into it other than the 'beneficial' one. An extreme amount of data could be collected.
Second, I am studying technical analysis of the stock market which is based on 'sentiment' and also, fibonacci equations. When I started studying this, I was astounded at how accurately a combination of the two can predict what price and in what time frame a stock will trade.
So in the case of the stock charting, using several daily data points over a period of several years, you get amazingly accurate prediction for future price performance of the stock. And, the more indicators and data that confirms, the more accurate the prediction.
Back to the mind and artificial intelligence. I have posted a number of times on this website. And using only the data available from my posts, someone, or something, if the data was input and the algorithms were correctly done, could accurately predict how I will respond or whether I will respond to the posts on this forum.
So imagine, I do dozens, sometimes hundreds of web searches each day. The amount of data about how my mind analyzes each result and where I search next to follow that process of analysis....very powerful algorithms can extract unbelievably accurate assessment of my raw intellect, of my level of education, of the 'connectors' I use in in making my analysis.
And, on a much simpler level, by following the responses from a number of people posting on this forum, I have a pretty clear view where they're coming from and whether they're 'real' or have another agenda. I admit it's not fool proof, and I am not consciously running algorithms, but life experience has created 'slots' in my analysis and when responses fall thru one slot and then thru another slot etc. it is equivalent to 0 - 1 -1 - 0.
So given what computer power we are aware exists (public knowledge) and what data we know they have been collecting (public knowledge), there must currently exist POWERFUL results which give those who have access to those results INCREDIBLE POWER! Because, they are not analyzing 'you' or 'I', they are analyzing all as ONE. And at the same time they are analyzing ONE, they are driving US apart so that WE don't have the ability to access this powerful data.
My thought dilemma is this: It appears to me that every potential 'benefit' to humankind has been intentionally corrupted if not initially corrupted. It appears to be the unfortunate 'other side to this physical life experience. Knowing the unbelievable power these interfaces and A.I. possibilities could have...er, DO have, as I believe they are in existence now....do we try to slow or stop them now, or learn to dance with the devil for the possible benefits these interfaces possess to our limited life experience.
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